Curse

Sofonisba · Dec 06, 2012, 02:32 PM // 14:32

I know a few comments back I said I wasn't sure I'd be back, but... I decided I would. Started a toon in pre for LDOA finally, and going to make another toon to take through all the campaigns doing every single quest. I know it's a trip down nostalgia lane but so what? More fun than any day I had in GW2 aside from character creation and doing a jumping puzzle for the first time.

I still need tons of rep for my Kurzick title, so I'll def be going in to AB this weekend, Koyote.

cantalus · Dec 07, 2012, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sofonisba

I still need tons of rep for my Kurzick title, so I'll def be going in to AB this weekend, Koyote.

AB is dead, has been for a long time, and wasn't directly effected by GW2's launch. if you want to earn faction by fighting, the Jade Quarry is the place to come, it's active, except early euro times, active enough that when GW2 proved too unsuited to my taste, i decided i'd get myself the Luxon title, and i'm now very close, and it's been fun, most bots are gone, and those that arrive get reported and banned very quickly, there are a few habitual leechers, but not enough to spoil the place

american districts if you want company

----------

i didn't notice the post about AB, sorry about that, i suspect i'll be there

Koyote · Dec 07, 2012, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Back to GW2.

Dead game is dead.

**cosyfiep** · Dec 07, 2012, 07:30 PM // 19:30

no, the game is fine....ab is and has been dead for a long time, ab is NOT the whole game, since the game is working just fine without it.
PVE is alive and doing well.

Sofonisba · Dec 08, 2012, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyote

Back to GW2.

Dead game is dead.

Well I'll go try some JQ then. Which is just funny because JQ was Lonesome Town before GW2. Everyone was in FA.

**cosyfiep** · Dec 08, 2012, 04:12 AM // 04:12

yeah people still do jq instead of fa (which I liked better). With the last double points weekend it was busier than normal.

makosi · Dec 09, 2012, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Did many people actually continue with Guild Wars 2 after the first few weeks?

Sofonisba · Dec 09, 2012, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Did many people actually continue with Guild Wars 2 after the first few weeks?

A lot of my guild is still in GW2. I don't know if it's entirely enjoyable, but they're trying to make it work. I don't have the time for that.

I feel like I might like it again in a year, when I've forgotten that it's supposed to be Guild Wars.

Schmerdro · Dec 10, 2012, 12:37 AM // 00:37

I've been playing it since the first open Beta (for those who pre-ordered) and I was still trying to like it for 3 months after it released (/age says I played it for 176 hours and most of it was actual play time, not being afk). There were so many people who were saying such good things about it (most of my friends included) that I thought I was missing something and I just needed to give it more time. But it simply never got fun, so I stopped forcing myself to play it. So yes, I gave GW 2 far more than a few weeks before I quit it. And I'm still open to going back if it undergoes some major changes.

But I'm really surprised that a lot more people didn't come back from GW 2 to GW 1. It made me realise how many people were basically using GW as a glorified chat system (that didn't have a monthly fee) and weren't particularly interested in the game itself.

This also made me think about the fact that when GW 2 starts to die off, it will die off suddenly and completely because it has really poor support for solo-play (because some PvE events are impossible if you don't have enough players). But GW 1 can still keep going for a long time because it has henchmen/heroes and even Jade Quarry is still popular because it has good faction rewards that can be used in PvE.

DiogoSilva · Dec 10, 2012, 01:33 AM // 01:33

Funny, one of the things that bothers me in GW2, is how it revolves so much on solo-play. There's almost no reason to join parties outside of dungeons. The game has poor support for party content, not the opposite, I think.

The new Fractals dungeon, however, is one of the greatest things ever about it (some design flaws excluded), and pretty much reminds me of GW1's party-driven experience I've had with pugs, but with more room to creative design due to the new engine's map/ movement mechanics. Been having as much fun with it as I've had with EoTN's dungeons content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

Did many people actually continue with Guild Wars 2 after the first few weeks?

The servers have been full, and the game's a critical success. It's a flawed game at several core mechanics, but it's a flawed good game, and despite the new ascended gear fiasco, the devs have been very honest with the userbase and showing (or promising) improvements in all areas.

I'd say in a year, a lot of people who didn't enjoy gw2 much will come back and like it more. The pvp is getting/ will get more game modes and a proper structure, the pve's encounters and events are getting a look at to be more interesting, the new dungeon is very fun and the old dungeons are being revised after the success of the new one, and the writers have been very humble about the big narrative's weaknesses and possible fixes for future story content. The thing that sticks out the most in a bad way, is the addition of a new tier of gear and the grindy nature to obtain it, but it seems like devs won't add another one and that they've said they're searching for more interesting means to get high end stuff, that'll require less grinding and more adventure.

Anyways, regardless of the flaws, many people are sticking out for sure, not everything is all gloom and doom like this little corner of the internet's world implies (things always seems worse than they do when you read a thread of a prequel about oldies who don't enjoy the sequel for being too different, you can't get an idea of the whole view from one side of the coin), and GW2 has been getting big, monthly content patches that peak the players online everytime they hit (and we've been promised that next year's monthly updates will get some even bigger stuff). So the playerbase will basically get expansions worth of free content when all said's and done. Not sure if the devs will deliver, but it keeps the hype up for many players.

Also, GW2's game controls aren't bad, they're just unnatural when you're used to GW1's.

But the reverse also happens. When GW2's controls start feeling natural to you, GW1's controls (and movement) will become very clunky and restrictive in comparison.

Schmerdro · Dec 10, 2012, 03:26 AM // 03:26

I agree that GW 2 encourages players to do map completion and the storyline quests alone, but it doesn't support those activities, as you don't really get any advantage from doing it alone other than convenience. If you were to do those things with just one other person it would be vastly easier but there's just no reason to do so because they're easy enough most of the time.

But in GW 1, playing with a party full of heroes adds a whole new dimension to the game and makes it far more interesting. You still get the convenience of playing alone, but now you have control over 64 skills rather than just 8. And you can even change the appearance of your heroes by buying mercenary slots, which can have a massive impact on the role-playing aspect of the game. Now that is support for solo-play.

And GW 1 also has great support for parties because you can use the Search bar, in any outpost, to organize anything. And players are encouraged to play together because of PvE skills (so people always have an advantage compared to heroes/henchmen) and how easy it is to show and copy builds (so that strategizing is easy and straight-forward). Furthermore, the Zaishen quests are pretty good at directing most of the players to specific, daily objectives which makes it easier to play casually with PuG's.

I also agree that GW 2 has poor party support (along with poor solo support). Outside of dungeons and sPvP, most people are encouraged to fight in huge zergs in both PvE (for DE karma farming) and PvP (for WvW). Those 2 really feel like wasted opportunities.

Quote:

When GW2's controls start feeling natural to you, GW1's controls (and movement) will become very clunky and restrictive in comparison.

This didn't happen to me. I never had any problem with GW 2's controls and the only habit that I got from it was I was trying to pick up my GW 1 drops with the "F" key.
In fact, GW 1 feels a lot more responsive and more intuitive than GW 2 because, just by trying to attack or use a skill, my character will automatically walk exactly as much as he/she needs in order to be in range and I never have to worry about my target being out of range. So the game understands that I'm never interested in attacking the thin air around me, but this concept seems to have been lost in GW 2.

Highlander Of Alba · Dec 10, 2012, 04:27 PM // 16:27

well I had a little play on GW1 to-day again and still think its the best out of the 2 of them.

Yes, there is bugs ect in gw2 but although I enjoy it sometimes its a pity that

I don't enjoy it as much.

An example that bugs me is the slow motion bug/or is it ? that even if you go to a low area and run past say a enemy ranger as an example he hits you once then you go into slow motion mode to continue running past it.

So its either stop kill it then continue onward.

I loved being able to set up a team with new builds and do a area. Now with the trinity gone some guys still wish you to respec a toon to be more healing than self supporting but, hey that's just my opinion as anets view is you can do any areas irrespective of a specific build.

I do hope that in Jan/Feb when the next big patch is out we will see what they come up with.

but GW1 is still a stronger Magnet that keeps drawing me back to it.

bigtime102 · Dec 10, 2012, 05:04 PM // 17:04

I just got back from GW2 after playing about 17 hours starting 2 days ago. None of the things that made GW1 fun for me are in GW2. I cant see any patch making gw2 more like gw1 but with enhancements, its just a different type of game which doesnt appeal to me like guild wars did.

----------

But thats why theres planetside 2. coincidentaly the banner ad shows "WTF YOU WAITING FOR!!! PLAY FREE NOW!!" anyone want to buy a copy of guild wars 2 , or trade , like order me a pizza and ill give you the account thats not illegal right?

DiogoSilva · Dec 10, 2012, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

But in GW 1, playing with a party full of heroes adds a whole new dimension to the game and makes it far more interesting. You still get the convenience of playing alone, but now you have control over 64 skills rather than just 8. And you can even change the appearance of your heroes by buying mercenary slots, which can have a massive impact on the role-playing aspect of the game. Now that is support for solo-play.

I love party play and heroes/ henchmen, but one of the biggest flaws for GW1's pve combat for me, is that it feels too automatic when you have 7 heroes. I always get the feeling that I'm being taken away from control, because the AI literally does everything for you. And when they don't, all you need is to flag them, force or block a specific skill, and yeah, finally use your own skill bar. Most of GW1's content has become very boring to me due to how automatic it is.

This wasn't so bad in GW1 back in the day where henchmen sucked, because you would to be very careful in how you play, but nowadays the Ai combat complete dominates for 99% of the game and the player only needs to move their avatar.

That's why I think GW2 offers a much superior solo experience. Although the fun of party synergy is mostly out, and I'm hoping its mechanics will become more relevant someday, playing GW2 solo actually feels like my actions matter. It's a lonely experience, but I actually have to play to get results, and that's fun.

Fortunately, they are already working on improvements for better party searching tools, so I'm hoping it gets way easier to join parties in harder areas, and the new fractals dungeon really is a wonderful party experience.

Also worth noting that most of the details we praise about GW1, weren't there since the beginning, and sometimes took as far as years to be implemented. That's why I say that GW2 in an year should offer a richer experience than it is now, also judging by the new content.

Schmerdro · Dec 10, 2012, 08:57 PM // 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

I love party play and heroes/ henchmen, but one of the biggest flaws for GW1's pve combat for me, is that it feels too automatic when you have 7 heroes.

So don't use them?... I don't understand the problem.

Are you complaining that GW is too easy with heroes? Then give them bad builds or try something more difficult like an elite area or WiK/WoC.

Are you complaining that you don't seem to have any impact in combat because your heroes are taking the important roles? Then change your profession or your build to something that's more useful to your team. You even have access to PvE skills so whatever role that a hero can fill, you can do better... except maybe interrupting but, even that, is sometimes done better by a human.

Are you saying you prefer to be alone and not be forced to use 7 allies in areas designed for teams of 8? This I can somewhat understand but I find that when a game lets you be a one-man army, it tends to get pretty repetitive and boring after a while. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But, if I feel like playing a game with strong single-player support and not have to worry about party dynamics, I would just play something like Kingdoms of Amalur (which had a really awesome combat system) or some shooter.

Have you ever played Rollcage 2? That's an awesome racing game for when you just want to turn off your brain and get an adrenaline rush. But GW is still my #1 choice for a strategic RPG.

Quote:

I say that GW2 in an year should offer a richer experience than it is now

Definitely agree. Prophecies is such a tedious and boring campaign. And yes, I'm also hoping that GW 2 will get a major change in a few months or so.

**cosyfiep** · Dec 10, 2012, 09:42 PM // 21:42

actually I found that I had to do more work in gw1 since there was ONLY 8 players max...while in gw2...I was working in an area...a whole bunch of people come by-kill off everything, heart is done! what did I do??? I stood there, by the time I got close enough to kill anything they were already dead...so I collected my reward and nothing else.
Zergs...just how do you actually do anything??? outside of the personal story and dungeons I find it toooo many people, I enjoy being with just me and my heroes/hechies.

I just didnt like the gw2 world, gw1 areas are much more my cup of tea.

Sofonisba · Dec 10, 2012, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

Zergs...just how do you actually do anything??? outside of the personal story and dungeons I find it toooo many people, I enjoy being with just me and my heroes/hechies.

I have to say, this stupid zerging, more than anything, made me stop logging into GW2.

WvWvW is a zerg. Karma farming is a zerg. New area with a special event? Oh yea, it's a zerg too. Doesn't matter what your build is or how you use it, with enough people it's a done deal.

If you don't like zerging, you're dead... because the zerg of the other teams in WvW or the enemies in high level PvE zones will smash you to bits.

If you deviate from the zerg, the zerg mob excoriates you in map chat for messing up their delicate zerging schedule. (I didn't do it myself, I just saw it happen.)

And now after typing it that many times, I officially hate the z-word lol.

I am not entirely giving up on GW2 but like cosyfiep, I feel more at home in GW1. I'll give GW2 some time to decide what kind of game it wants to be.

DiogoSilva · Dec 10, 2012, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

So don't use them?... I don't understand the problem.

Are you complaining that GW is too easy with heroes? Then give them bad builds or try something more difficult like an elite area or WiK/WoC.

Are you complaining that you don't seem to have any impact in combat because your heroes are taking the important roles? Then change your profession or your build to something that's more useful to your team. You even have access to PvE skills so whatever role that a hero can fill, you can do better... except maybe interrupting but, even that, is sometimes done better by a human

But why cripple myself? This is an online game, there's a lot to do, and at the time of pre-GW2, my aims were the HOM, which I have maxed not much after GW2 was out. Why cripple myself, why slow down when other players could do it faster than me and get GW2 with better rewards than me?

That was my line of thinking back then. It's not so much about the challenge, but that the current core party mechanics play the game for you unless you cripple yourself or do some elite areas. But i'm not a big fan of doing elite areas - I enjoy exploring the world and going through the story at my pace, which is 90% of the pve game to me, and I didn't want to cripple myself for the sake of challenge, because I noticed that by doing so, I would be getting rewards and progression far slower, and that was also a bad thing to me.

It's not about having good builds or not, neither, it's really that the heroes literally play 90% of the game for you, regardless of how useful you might or might not be to your team. I only felt truly in control in 4-man areas because the party was smaller, the builds needed to be tighter, and the reliance on AI was much lower. That's where I truly felt that me, as a player, could make the key difference between win or lose (beyond just flagging heroes).

But this is natural when, unlike a normal single player rpg where you control the entire party, or one member of a small party, you control one out of 8, with the other 7 being AI-driven.

For GW2, outside of busy events (= zergs), which give me the exact same automated feeling, the game actually makes me feel otherwise that my decisions have consequences, unlike when I'm watching bots do it for myself while I spam searing flames and maintain enchantments on myself. I don't want to sound too negative to GW1, because harder content is not this bland, and because GW1 is a fun game overall, but yeah, I think that GW1 is, too, a flawed good game much like I think GW2 is a flawed good game, each with different strengths. But GW2 has more potential down the road, with the better engine and with the fact that it's the only one that'll get massive updates from now on.

Schmerdro · Dec 11, 2012, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

I enjoy exploring the world and going through the story at my pace, which is 90% of the pve game to me, and I didn't want to cripple myself for the sake of challenge, because I noticed that by doing so, I would be getting rewards and progression far slower

I still don't understand what's the problem. So you don't want to challenge yourself because that makes you uncomfortable but, at the same time, you want to have the rarest items/titles? I think you need some time to decide what it is you really find to be "fun" about a game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DiogoSilva

heroes literally play 90% of the game for you, regardless of how useful you might or might not be to your team

How much of GW have you actually played? And on what profession(s)?
This is another thing I really like about GW 1 and can't find in GW 2, which is that in GW 1 you can actually play powerful builds that have a massive impact, unlike in GW 2 where everything seems to be slowed down and dumbed down.

In GW 1 you have access to powerful control skills like Panic, Psychic Instability, Broad Head Arrow (and various other interrupts), hammer and Ele skills that can repeatedly KD one or multiple targets, and powerful defensive skills from almost any Healing/Protection Monks, Restoration Rits, ST Rits with Communing spirits, Infuse ER Ele, and Imbagon. And they were all balanced out by powerful offensive skills, all of which are displayed on PvX wiki, and monster skills/higher stats. Whether or not you used those builds made a big difference and I often found myself to be carrying the team if I was playing a build that I knew how to play right.

And, on a side note, I really can't understand why some of the less used skills couldn't simply be buffed to the level of the frequently used ones. But I guess there's enough variety already; I just wish there was more.

Anyway, in GW 2, there are simply too many skills with massive recharge times and little effect (anything longer than 45 seconds is too long, even 30 seconds is kinda pushing it). This doesn't make the game more strategic, it makes it feel slow and diminishes the effect of choosing one skill over another (because none of them are all that powerful).

I guess that's one of the big weaknesses of GW 1, in that it's hard for new players to know how to play the game. All the skills are spread out all over the place and you need to heavily use the wiki and PvX wiki just to get an idea of what you can do and what you're supposed to do. And it's probably one of the reason why most of the developers gave up on this game, it became too complex even for them. But this complexity is why I really love this game and why I want it to keep going in its current direction.

And, really, if a player doesn't want to deal with all that strategy in an RPG then he/she can just use PvX builds or play with people that know what they're doing. There are options for everyone.

Sofonisba · Dec 11, 2012, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmerdro

I guess that's one of the big weaknesses of GW 1, in that it's hard for new players to know how to play the game. All the skills are spread out all over the place and you need to heavily use the wiki and PvX wiki just to get an idea of what you can do and what you're supposed to do.

I don't know about that entirely. A person can muddle through quite well in pve with no knowledge of pvxwiki, and still have a good time. It's hard to remember but I think the first time I played through Prophecies my builds were all over the place and far from perfect but generally had some consistency behind them. It was only when I started doing pvp that I looked for outside sources; then I realized how little I knew!

Quote:

But this complexity is why I really love this game and why I want it to keep going in its current direction.

Amen to that.